From Player to Mentor: Chris Turner's Remarkable Football Journey

:: 00:00

That? No. Very conversational. So typically what we like to do is just kind of get to know each other a little bit. The conversation flows the way it flows.

:: 00:14

I have kind of some questions around what you're doing, so we'll kind of almost go in order. Right. So we'll talk about who you are. So a bit of an introduction to what you're doing right now and what you've done previous. Then we'll kind of dig into the past and kind of where it all began.

:: 00:27

A little bit about the playing career. Then we'll tell if I go on. Too long, don't stress, you'll be fine. I will ask the necessary questions. We're going to record for about 35 to 40 minutes there or thereabouts.

:: 00:41

Okay. So we'll just ask plenty of questions as answers come up. I suspect it will fuel more questions and lead into more things. So okay. We'll pick it up from there.

:: 00:53

Do you have any questions for me? Anything you'd like to know? No? Fine. Okay, excellent.

:: 01:00

Let's get straight into it then, guys. We're going to just have a couple of pet sick and I'm talking to my editing team. A couple of seconds of silence and then just use this as the edit point. Awesome.

:: 01:16

He'll come on the screen.

:: 01:20

I can everything all right? Yeah. She's just going to go in the back of the screen and take this off the radiator. No problem.

:: 01:32

That's it.

:: 01:36

That's better.

:: 01:39

It excellent. Okay, let's do this. Three, two, one. Hello and welcome to this edition of Billionaires in Boxes. I'm your host, as always, Philip Polluther.

:: 01:54

And today I am joined by the one and only Chris Turner. Chris, I'm very excited to have you here. Welcome to the show. Good afternoon, Philip. Great to be here.

:: 02:04

It's lovely to see you, mate. And this has been a long time in the making, this interview, so I'm glad that we finally got there together. For those people who are now frantically googling your name and saying, I know that face from somewhere, do you want to just kind of give us a brief introduction to who you are and what you do? Well, I'm a former professional footballer who played for Sheffield Wednesday twice. Sunderland, Manchester United and Lake Norrion.

:: 02:27

Had a coaching career. That bit at Lake Norrion. Wolves Leicester. Managed Hartley Pool. Managed Sheffield Wednesday, managed Stockport County.

:: 02:37

Been director of football back at Hartley Pool on two occasions. Currently, I'm working for the LMA. I look after four to five managers. I mentor them and I do a little bit of work that I've been doing this morning for the FA on commissions where managers or players have broken the law and we have to make a decision on how many games to suspend them for or ban them from the game. And basically that's my lifestyle and where I am at the moment.

:: 03:10

In 45 seconds, I think. Fantastic. I love it. That's probably the quickest you've ever introduced explained your entire career, isn't it? Yes, by a far.

:: 03:22

Yeah, well, look, let's give it the respect it deserves and take it all the way back because you've had a phenomenal career in the game. So where did it all begin for you? Were you always a football fanatic as a kid? Did you start playing at a young age? When did you find football or when did football find you?

:: 03:40

Well, I've always been the football supporter. My mom and dad took me to watch Sheffield Wednesday when I was about three, four years of age, and I used to go to every home game, some away games of them. I've stood on the Cups at Liverpool, at Manchester United, at Arsenal, at Chelsea, watching Sheffield Wednesday in the 60s when I became about ten years ten year old, I used to like playing out as an outfield player from a school team at Shooters Grove in Sheffield. And one afternoon we were playing in a five aside tournament and the goalkeeper failed to turn up for the tournament. It was poorly, so I stepped in, went in goal.

:: 04:24

We weren't the greatest team in the competition, so I conceded a number of goals, but I also made a lot of supposedly good saves, excellent saves. And watching the tournament was Sheffield Boys Under Eleven's manager, who asked our school teacher, why hasn't this lad been along for the trials that we had two or three weeks ago? And the answer to that was he did, but he didn't get in as a midfield player. He said, well, I'd like him to come and join our training sessions for the Sheffield Under Eleven s Tuesday Thursday nights and let's have a look at him as a goalkeeper. And that's how my career in goalkeeper was launched.

:: 05:08

And thereafter I was placed in goal. Didn't like playing in goal. I must admit I prefer to be an outfield player. I still played outfield from a school team, but I was playing in Gold Sheffield Boys, and thereafter my career in football started. And then at 14 I went to Manchester United.

:: 05:31

They wanted to sign me and a chap called Derek Dooley, who was a legend for Sheffield Wednesday, and then went on to be chairman of Sheffield United. He came to my parents house at Stannington Sheffield and assigned schoolboy forms for Sheffield Wednesday at 14. I left school at 15, no exams, nothing, which is not what I would say is the best way, but fortunately for me, it's worked out okay. And I started at 16 as an apprentice professional footballer and that's how I started in professional football at Shepherd Wednesday at 16. That's really cool.

:: 06:17

I love that story. I was going to say you seem far too sane to be part of this goalkeeper's union. I don't think I've met a goalkeeper who's not a little bit loopy, so there's got to be some I mean, especially as you play professional, right? There's got to be something slightly different about you that wants to be in between those posts, getting the ball smashed in your direction on a regular basis and to put yourself in the way of it. But actually to touch on that education piece, which is interesting, I've seen how much that's changed over the years, even from when I was in school.

:: 06:48

The players who were playing professionally, or for some of the larger clubs in particular, they were almost admitted from education. It was like, don't worry about them, they're going to be a footballer. So education was almost forgotten, whereas now it feels much more that it plays a pivotal part, that it's like you're not allowed to play unless you're getting your grades up. And they're more student athletes, as they would use them as the term in America. Then they've got a free pass because they're a football player.

:: 07:16

Well, that's right. I mean, if you listen to professional footballers today in their interviews, after games, prior to games, they're well spoken, they come across well now. They're taught a lot more how to present themselves than when I first started. And you're correct in saying that education didn't play any part in the young players at the clubs because they all felt that they were going to become professional footballers and what else outside of that didn't really matter. Whereas today everything is now, which is more of a responsibility now, and quite correctly so, for professional clubs to ensure that the young people, young players, get the educational opportunities so that if they don't become a professional footballer, which is the vast majority.

:: 08:17

For obvious reasons, they have something to fall back on or something to help them, enable them to seek something else in life. And I totally agree with it. As I said, fortunately for me, I made it as a professional football and I've been employed in professional football now for over 45 years. But having said that, I do wish I had some qualifications along the line, but I'm a little bit too old for that now, so I won't go down that route now. But I always say to young players that the education side of life is very important, Chris.

:: 08:58

I want to back that up. So I actually got qualifications later in life, but I got kicked out of school at 14 with no qualifications. And when I got medically retired in my early 20s from football, I remember having a really dark and quite depressing time of I don't even know who I am anymore, my identity is lost. That's what I was, that's what I was going to be. And now I had nothing.

:: 09:19

And well, not almost. I had to completely rebuild a new life away from the game. And it's only in recent years, through my business work, that I've actually started to come back and do more in the game. But I'm well aware that I'm blessed in that respect and it gave me a real appreciation for how dark and lonely that feeling can be of not just not being able to play the game, but losing your identity if that's all you've wanted to be from the age of five, six years old. And suddenly for whatever reason you find yourself unable to do it or having been dropped or not signed or out of contract or whatever.

:: 09:54

It's a pretty dark and scary place. It's very difficult for young players even still today that they go into the academies now and their dream is obviously to become a professional footballer and that dream can be taken away from them at any age groups going up and as they become 14 and 15 that they really believe it's going to happen. Then at 16 that call comes, you go and see the coaching staff and you're pushed over the edge of that cliff.

:: 10:30

I would say even as little as: 1520

:: 11:07

At 16 they were getting a text to tell them either what the new training schedule was or they didn't get a text to tell them when to come in for training because they weren't coming in for training and that was how they dealt with it. It was a text. I remember him saying the worst part was everybody texting each other saying I've got mine, have you got yours? And it's like no, I'm still waiting for that's. Difficult.

:: 11:29

So I am glad that they're taking more responsibility for that. Chris, before we move on to sort of player development and moving into managing your managerial career, what was the highlight of your playing career for you? It doesn't even have to have been sort of the best moment, but what's the moment that you're most proud of? Well, when I was 17 and made my league debut for Sheffield Wednesday, we played Walsh all at home. In those days, Sheffield Wednesday were in the third division of four divisions and one, two, three and four and there were 17 years of age and running down that tunnel.

:: 12:01

There was only 910 thousand people watching in those days. But playing in front of my mates who I used to stand on the cup and watch the team play, obviously mom and dad and et cetera were there, but to play for Sheffield Wednesday for me was pinnacle and unbelievable. Even in those days really couldn't believe it. It was surreal. From watching team from the then going with my mates in the watch the team play to suddenly now be playing was an unbelievable feeling.

:: 12:39

And even though during my career played for Manchester United and Sunderland and got to Cup Finals and won a cup final, et cetera, and won promotions, that very first game stands out immensely for me. And we drew nil nil, and I didn't concede it. And in the final five minutes I made a match winning save which got the headlines the next day Macaria was launched. See, I love that and it's the team as well, it's your team and I think that's always going to be special. I've supported, I managed, I played for my team and it's very rare.

:: 13:23

Yeah, that's special. So how did the leap from player into manager go? Because I know that that's not always a smooth transition for everybody and and not every good player makes a good coach or a good manager. So did you always know once the game finished that you were going to move into management? Well, I've always wanted to coach at the end of my career, and management was always something that if the opportunity came, I'd like to take it.

:: 13:51

When I was at Lake Norrie well, finally, in the final years of my playing career at Sheffield Wednesday, in about 89, 91, those three years, I did my coaching badges up in Scotland. A good playing friend of mine, Gordon Strachan, at the time, we were neighbors over in Whimslow in Cheshire, so I went to Scotland with him and I did my A license and the B license, which in those days took three years. And when I went to Layton Orient after playing there for a couple of seasons, the manager asked me if I wanted to be the assistant manager and then my coaching career was launched from there. When I left Leighton Orient, I was youth team coach at Leicester for twelve months with Ameleski. Was one of my players at Leicester and then Mark McGee, the manager moved to Wolverhampton Wanderers and I spent three and a half years at Wolverhampton Wanderers as a youth team coach there coaching the likes of Robbie Keane.

:: 14:59

Robbie Keane, Keith Andrews, Matt Murray, Jolie and Lescott, who all went on to play internationally for the clubs. And we had a super team at Wolves at that time. Great. I love that. Do you know what's really fun about this?

:: 15:14

And we'll touch on some of the players that you've worked with because I know you've discovered some and worked with some big names over the years. I love that life has almost supported you along the way with this and that's what happens when you're in flow, right? So you went and did your trial as a midfielder and didn't get it. And then somebody just so happened to be there to watch you play and as a goalkeeper because someone didn't turn up for the game and then you want to go into management and Gordon's a neighbor and then has the ability to take you up to Scotland and provide you that. So I really like the fact that life has supported you with this.

:: 15:46

It clearly shows that you were meant to be in the game and this is where you were supposed supposed to be. So life was you were swimming with the tide as opposed to against it. And I really like that. Well, that's right. And there's many things when you look back in life and you didn't realize it at the time, but you do now.

:: 16:05

And you think, well, look plays a major part in a lot of people who were successful in whatever they do, whether it be in football or outside football. There'll be some sort of lucky situation that helped him along the way. And that particular morning way back then, which is now 50 odd years ago, if Colin Berrisford, who was a goalkeeper, had turned up that morning, who knows? I may never made a professional footballer, who knows what, I don't know. But I'm a great believer that if you're good enough, football will find you and I say that many times to younger players and players work as hard as possible and if the opportunity will arise at some time, if you stick.

:: 17:05

At it, I love that. Well, you've discovered a lot of players along the way and seen that talent from a very young age. So when you're looking at that, I've always been curious about this were you looking at somebody that was just better head and shoulders than their peer group? Or was it something about their attitude that you saw in them? Or when you're trying to identify that talent?

:: 17:29

So when you think back about some of the great players that you've just named and others that you've met and discovered, how did you know? How did you know that they would make it? It's in the makeup of the player over the period of a long period of time. You see a lot of very good players, a lot of talented players that don't make it always hard to explain, but to become a professional footballer, it's not just about talent, it's about attitude, it's about commitment, it's about look, it's about the teams that you play for, it's your mental ability. If you're going in the park and you're seeing somebody play, you'll always be able to see the player that stands out from the rest.

:: 18:25

Everybody can see that you don't need a talent for that. But you also have to be looking at a player, sorry players, and you see something in a player, can you develop that, can you improve him, would he be good in a better team? All these sort of things. And that comes with experience of having an eye to be able to spot that. Like I said, you can go to a game and everybody will tell you the best player on the field.

:: 18:55

It's pretty obvious it stands out but it's the one who doesn't stand out and the one who you think, I quite like him. He's got everything that I can see while he's playing. It's someone you speak to people. When I used to sign players, I always used to like to obviously speak to them face to face, look in their eye and see their facial expression when they're talking to you, because you can see whether the person really means what he's saying or is he just playing at it. I always remember Chris Turner when he was manager of Burnley.

:: 19:34

He released a player called Kevin Henderson, a striker who was a northeast lad. And he used to like northeast lads playing for Hartley pool because he had a feeling for the area. Very difficult to get somebody from down south to travel all the way up to the Northeast to play in league two and convince him to sign for the club. But Kevin Anderson was a local boy. He hadn't scored many goals.

:: 19:57

He'd only had a flirtation in the Burnley first team. And I spoke with Chrissy, says, Kevin works his socks off, gives everything every week. He just lacks the quality to be a first team player at Burnley, he says, but I can assure you he'll give you everything. So the day I spoke to Kevin in my office, I was so impressed with him. He looked me straight down the eye and told me what he was going to do.

:: 20:22

He'll work his socks off, he'll do this, he'll do that, he'll listen, he'll develop. And he had a boy, he played for me for two years. He got 19 in one season and 20 odd goals in the next. And he was absolutely diamond of a boy to work with. And it was great to see him come and be a success at Hartleypool.

:: 20:40

And once again, it's being able to speak to somebody and get the passion out of them and see the passion in them that makes you believe this boy's got a chance. Okay? So that leads on to something quite interesting, because I like to ask this question whenever I speak to managers. So when we're working with players like that, that's a dream, right? They work hard, they turn up on time for training, they put the graft in, they train as hard as they play, they do what they say they're going to do.

:: 21:08

And I imagine he was a good lad to have around the dresser room as well, right? Salt of the earth kind of person. What happens the other way? What happens when you have that toxic player or a bit of a prima donna who's a bit of a pain in the backside? How, as a manager, do you handle that situation?

:: 21:23

I've always wondered if somebody's a prima donna, but they're a good player. Do you almost just put up with the fact that they're a bit of a muppet because they're really good for you on the field or how much of team chemistry and balance in the changing room does come into the equation when dealing with players like that? Well, this is all in the spirit of what makes a good manager. Now, when you go to coaching courses, as I've said earlier, they can't teach you these experiences. No.

:: 22:01

So you then, at some stage will come up against a player, or players that aren't pulling the weight, aren't playing as well as what they should do, and you've got to handle it. Where's your experience of that? You haven't got it. No. So you learn on the job.

:: 22:25

Fortunately, when I was learning, I always used to, in my youth teams, I always used to coach them, train them, talk to them like first team players because that's what they want to become. So I'm a great believer in that. You bring those players up at 16 to 18 in a way of how they're going to be expected to perform and handle once they become 18 or 17 and become a first team player. I started at 17. In the first team, I had two seven to half in front of me.

:: 23:01

If I didn't come out for a through ball, for a cross or whatever, they absolutely lambasted me. They didn't turn around and look at me as though, or is he only a young kid in goal? We've got to look after him. They were talking to me as 28 year old, 30 year old goalkeeper, and this is what they wanted me to do. Now, for me, I have a Sanko swim in that situation.

:: 23:25

So I learned a lot in my early part of my career of how to handle dealing with older players because I was the youngest in the team and that helped me. So you as a manager, have a responsibility to all the other players in the squad if somebody's not towing the line or if somebody's getting away with things, or you're allowing them a little bit of difference. We had a boy who came to Hartley Pool, a boy called Gordon Watson, who played for Sheffield Wednesday Charlton, and he had a very serious injury, had to retire, but he was a goal scorer, had to retire through injury. A number of years later, down the line, he started training with a friend of mine called Neil McNab, who was a coach at Portsmouth, and my wife was here's a bit of luck for you. My wife was talking to his wife because we were neighbors, because Neil was an ex Manchester City player.

:: 24:19

And she said to my wife, says, oh, tell Chris Turner's coaching with one of his ex players. So she said, who's that? Said, Gordon Watson. So I then got talking to Neil. I said, how is he?

:: 24:32

He said, well, he's as sharp as anything. He's working hard, he's just training with us. I said, do you think he could still do it? So he says, well, have a look at him. So we flew Gordon up to the northeast.

:: 24:46

Got a long story short. Gordon used to turn up on a Thursday morning for training train Friday, play Saturday. So he wasn't really full time with us, but Gordon could score goals, and Gordon did score goals. But obviously, the other boys in the team, they're seeing him put up in a boarding house and all these, and he was very charismatic. They used to take the mickey out of other players and liked him, loved him, hated him.

:: 25:19

But as a player, he scored goals, and he won your matches. So I had to integrate Gordon into that sort of environment but also say to the other boys, yeah, but, you know, Saturday afternoon when we're up against it and we need a goal, you provide him with the chances he'll get the goals. So I utilize that to blend him into the environment of the rest of the squad. Now, the bigger club you go to. So I left Hartley Pool, who I knew when I put my head on the pillow this is Howard Wilkinson told me this once.

:: 25:57

ut your head on the pillow at: 10:00

:: 26:34

The club was on the slide. There was second bottom, very close to bottom of the championship. And then straight away, I'm at the club I've loved as a boy and never played for. I'm now the manager, and I've got a complete different scenario. I had players that didn't want to train.

:: 26:52

I had players that couldn't train through the week but were deemed fit enough to play on Saturday and so on and so on and so on. I was working to a routine at Hartley Pool every Monday to Friday. All the players knew what they were doing when we did it, how we did it to the standard that's required, which then transferred into Saturday afternoon. Home all the way, were winning matches because I left Artly, pulled 14 points clear in league two now gone to a team that's used to losing. And I had to learn on the job, and you have to learn how to handle these players who are on a lot, lot more money than what they were, the players at Hartley Pool.

:: 27:31

And you either. Well, I've inherited somebody else's squad, haven't you? And I inherited four managers, players who were still there so I had to learn and it was difficult.

:: 27:49

And there's a lot that you can't say at the time because it's going to affect your dressing room and the performance on. The hardest thing for me as a manager was standing on the touchline at Hillsborough, playing against a smaller club than Shepherd Wednesday, but knowing that they've got a better team than what I've got and knowingly this is going to be a tough game where the fans turn up sheffield Wednesday versus Plymouth. We're miles better than bigger club than Plymouth. We're miles of that. And then Plymouth go and play off the pitch because Walter could their time at Plymouth had got a hard working team similar to what I had at Hartleyville.

:: 28:28

Now doing it against me at Sheffield Wednesday with a group of players who were all over the place at that particular time. Isn't it hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. That's right. I understand that. I wanted to ask you actually, because I won't disrespect you by asking you who, because I know that that's off territory, but I know you do a lot of mentoring at the moment for other managers as well across different leagues, including at the highest level.

:: 28:55

So is that because somebody did that for you or people did that for you? Or did you not really have mentors? Because I know you've worked with some phenomenal managers and coaches over the years. Were they there to kind of mentor you through this learning process as a manager? Like when you were at Sheffield Wednesday, for example, did you have someone that you could call the likes of a fergie or someone that you could pick up the phone and say, what the hell am I doing with this situation?

:: 29:20

Or were you just completely alone? No, I was a young manager. When you're young, you think you can do everything. I've come into management from youth team football, gone to Hartleypool, turned Hartley pool round from a team that were always 2nd, 3rd, 4th, bottom on the fringes of going out of the football league. I turned them from being round to a team who always finished in the top six the next three years, and then I left them with a team 14 points clear.

:: 29:48

So you believe that you can do it again in your next job, even though the next job was bigger, more pressurizing and everything, you still believe you can do it? Obviously, I spoke to managers over the time when I was there, but no, I didn't have anybody really, or I didn't utilize probably managers that have worked with me in the past as a player now. I do look after managers now and they can ring me up at any time, ask me any questions or ask my advice, and that's what I do with these managers currently. Well, that's an interesting question. Again, I'll steer clear of names, but I'm curious.

:: 30:29

You just said. As a young manager, maybe you just didn't utilize it. Maybe people would have been there. Do you still find that with young managers today? Is there still that level of, well, I was a player and I was here and I've done it, and why am I speaking to this guy?

:: 30:43

Like, do I need a mentor? Right. Yes. Interesting. I mean, there's one manager who I've been working with who is absolutely a gem to work with.

:: 30:55

He's out of work at the moment, but he played at the highest level and he is his first management job. And he really was into having a mentor of speaking to me two or three times a week before and after games. And I really enjoyed that spell working with him. And hopefully I'll be working with him as soon as possible when he gets back into a job. And I got a great satisfaction from spending an hour on the Saturday night going through his game and his team's game and what he can do about this.

:: 31:37

And then there's the other managers. It's just going to watching them in training, going along, have a general chat with them and just being there for them. I mean, the position is not to tell them, you should be playing four, four two, or you need this. Yeah, sure. It's just to be there for them.

:: 31:53

Just to be there for. And that's important now more so than ever. I mean, always, but now more so than ever, with the stresses of social media and the print and digital media, I mean, everything you do is completely under a spotlight. Twenty four seven, right? And a magnifying glass to boot.

:: 32:12

So I can't imagine the stress of all levels actually having worked with I mainly work with football federations, but even then I see the stress of them when there's international competitions going on. If your side loses to somebody that they were supposed to win, the atmosphere is toxic, the press are all over the place. It's a stressful situation to be in.

:: 32:37

The thing for me is the expectations is always difficult. And whether you're Arsenal, Liverpool, Manchester City, or you're talking United and Scunthorpe, who are now X League clubs, really struggling in the National League. And I was only watching last night a podcast of Scunthorpen, who've now gone into conference. North. I mean, they were challenging and were in the championship not too long, distant future away.

:: 33:10

But when I played for Manchester United, I always remember we lost the very first game of the season away one nil at Arsenal, 55,000 people at Highbury, and we lost one nil to an eight yard minute goal from Charlie Nicholas. We lost one nil. And you picked up the papers on the Sunday morning. And our championship hopes of winning the champion was a championship. There not championship championship today.

:: 33:39

The Premiership today. Yeah. No chance. Absolutely no chance. So when they played one game and lost one nil away.

:: 33:48

So it brought you, for me playing for Manchester United, the expectations and how he's supposed to play, how he's supposed to win, and you had to win. That got ingrained in me. So as a manager, I couldn't handle the expectations when we weren't reaching the expectations of what people on the outside. When I was started at Harley Pool, we go into social media, as you mentioned there, Philip, it was only the internet, the websites in them, sort of they what's the term? Websites.

:: 34:32

Talking, football talking and message boards, messages like the blogs. There was this guy at Hartley Pool for some romantic reason, didn't like me for whatever reason, and he kept going on and on and on. So I pulled the media guy, I said, Listen, so and so and so. I said, Send this to him. Oh, you can't do that.

:: 34:58

I said, no, send it to this to him. Say, I'm inviting him to come down. I'm inviting him to come down to the ground, to have a cup of tea or coffee or have a biscuit, have an hour's chat with me. Let's talk about Art Lepool United, the past, the history and the future and the present. Yeah, Tempt, come down, come down, have a chat.

:: 35:22

Bang, out it went. Now, loads of people, oh, yeah, get down there, go and have a chat with him. Firing to him, ask him this and that. He never come on for weeks. He never showed his pseudo name, never came back on for weeks.

:: 35:38

So that was then. I can imagine. Now, did he ever come? Did he ever visit you? No, never came.

:: 35:46

Didn't have the strength to come. And a quick one, howard Wilkinson, when he was manager, Shepherd Wednesday, kept getting letters from this one person about Lee Chapman. Now, if you knew Lee Chapman is six foot three, six foot four, big, tall, center forward, blah, blah, blah, and this guy was criticizing Lee every weekend following Monday letter came Lee Chapman, this Lee Chapman. So Howard thought, I'll tell you what I'm going to take. Lee knocked on the front door of this guy.

:: 36:18

Guy opened the door, and they're looking in front of him was Lee Chapman. He then had a run in the house, had a discussion with him and was fine about it, don't get me wrong. But could you imagine that guy opening the door and their six foot lead? Terrified. So that was a way, that'd be.

:: 36:42

A great way to deal with it. I don't think we get away with that in these days, but there's a lot of people, warriors, right, they're quite happy to say things on social media, but if you put them to the player or the manager, they'd be asking for autographs and asking for selfies and stuff. Well, exactly. Before we wrap up with what it is you're doing at the moment, because I know you're working on some quite exciting projects at the moment. Who was the last club that you were with full time?

:: 37:07

Because I know you do a lot of things. I was a CEO at Chesterfield, I worked there for six years at Chesterfield. That's some great so you've been every role in the game? Well, I've done everything. I played, I've managed, I've coached, I've been director of football, director sport, I've.

:: 37:28

Been chairman of you did that Everton, didn't you? No, I wish I had, but no, I've not been Everton. I've not been in Liverpool.

:: 37:43

In that whole argument.

:: 37:47

I don't think you're allowed to work for Liverpool if you've worked for Manchester United. I think there's something in the contracts. Don't worry about that. No, I've played I've done every role over 45, as I said earlier, 45 years experience in the game. The CEO at Chesterfield, I brought players in with the manager, I brought Paul Cook to Chesterfield, who was a fantastic manager.

:: 38:16

He's back there now, trying to revive him to get back into the league. But he was fantastic with Chesterfield, with Paul, with other managers. I sold £6.5 million with the players whilst I was at Chesterfield. People don't realize that. Fans didn't realize well, no, the fans did realize that, but that was part of my job at Chesterfield, of course, because the owner was funding the club.

:: 38:41

He funded the move from the old soldier gate down to the brand new stadium. And they needed if we didn't raise these funds, he had to put more money in and he wanted to develop a team developer, players, developer, manager, and be able to sell players to keep bringing finance into the club. Chris, was that difficult to manage the fans and their expectations with that? Because obviously, fans naturally want to keep hold of their best players. So when somebody starts playing well and there's an opportunity to sell them at a heightened value because of their current form, that must be difficult to manage a fans expectation.

:: 39:17

Unbelievable. We were challenging League One for playoffs and we had Owen Doyle, who we pull abroad from Hibernian on a free transfer, and he scored 25 goals before January the first. So you've got everybody reportedly coming in for him, and we sold him to Cardiff for the million, just under £1 million, and the problem is from a free transfer, but the fans don't appreciate that because they want Owen Doyle staying in the team, scoring goals. I wanted Owen Doyle staying at the club and scoring goals because we eventually did still get into the playoffs. But when a player who is on owen was on these aren't the exact figures, but they're not far.

:: 40:16

Owen was on around £: 1500

:: 40:51

Sheffield United had offered 125,000 for Owen, nowhere near right. Cardiff came in at about 250. And I was talking to the Chinese person, not the owner, but he was the chief exec at the time. He said, Put down on an email what you want. So I put down £1 million on an email.

:: 41:18

In the end, we settled on 900 fee, which was massive, from one, two five of Sheffield United 900,000, and then it was another 100,000 on an international cap. So many on appearances and goals, blah, blah, blah. But we've got just under a million pounds for Rowan Doyle in the end. Beautiful. Which from a club's point of view is excellent.

:: 41:44

From a fans point of view, obviously disappointed. And I understand that the frustrations, and I got quite a lot of criticism because we brought Liam Cooper in on a free transfer. I sold him for 800. We bought Boy from Mansfield for 110,000, the most we spent, and I sold him to Hull for 1.3. So I sold six and a half million pounds of the players in a five, six year period for Chesterfield.

:: 42:13

So I'm very proud about that because that kept the club going and helped alleviate more expense for the actual owner at the time. Well, in an era where many clubs were notoriously badly run and which is why they no longer exist anymore for many of them, or they're now a Phoenix club that's risen from the ashes. Yeah, I can see why that's a very proud achievement. Chris, before we wrap up, I just want to finally ask you about.

:: 42:42

Well, that's one of my biggest disappointments, because when I've left Chesterfield, I've not been picked up by another club since. In terms of helping people who buy football clubs. I'm a consultant now, but I see all these people buying these clubs. I can help them either buy a club or help them once they bought a club and advise them and help them and get the best out of their playing squad. And obviously, players coming in, we talked about recruitment way back in this conversation.

:: 43:14

I can help a lot of people and I can save them money and I can make them money, and I just wish that people would give me a ring and give me the opportunity. Yeah, you know what? Often it's a visibility thing, right? It's like out of sight, out of mind.

:: 43:34

Football in a nutshell, that is, right? Player, manager, anything. If you're not in the face of people, people forget you. And there's always new kids on the block, et cetera, coming behind you course, as well. Hopefully somebody hears this, sees this, watches this and they get in touch.

:: 43:51

I'll make sure that we leave your contact details in the show notes as well, so that people know how to get in contact with you. Chris, before we wrap up I did have one final question, because I know that you're working on some quite exciting things at the moment, and there's different things going on in your world. So what's your focus on right now? You mentioned the consultant, you mentioned the mentorship. What's going on in your world right now?

:: 44:09

Well, I've also set up a small business for clubs. Amateur or professional? Rusk Green, an ex associate of mine, hartley Pool Rusk Green, we have set up a small company that take clubs abroad to Southern Spain pinatar football training center. And it's absolutely magnificent. And we've got brochures and everything.

:: 44:35

So if there's any professional or amateurs clubs that want to take their players abroad, preseason, midseason, end of season, whatever, we've got a great facility that we work with for the players to develop and obviously develop your team for the oncoming season. We've Stockport County have just come on board with us. They're going out with us in the summer. We've got a couple of championships and a couple of league, two clubs who we're negotiating with them at the time. So that's a little side issue for me that keeps me busy.

:: 45:10

Brilliant. I love that. And Chris, if you send me some images and some I'll have my team clip this bit. But if you send me some images. On the Ball on The Ball Espanya is a company name.

:: 45:24

On the ball. Espanya.com. Are we good to grab any images or yes, take anything. Okay, cool. So we'll jump straight back into the interview and then we'll wrap up.

:: 45:34

So, Chris, where can people find a website for this to come and kind of have a look? Because that sounds amazing. Yeah. On the ball. Espanya.com.

:: 45:42

You'll find it on there. Excellent. So if you're listening to this on the podcast or the radio, definitely check out the show notes. They'll be in there. If you're watching this on TV, that has already appeared on screen, and then you can go to that website and engage.

:: 45:53

Chris, this has been a real pleasure. Thank you so much for being here. I've thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. I doubt it will be our last. Thank you so much for joining us.

:: 46:02

It's been a lot of fun. I think you and I should do this over a beer at some point and go down the rabbit hole with all those stories. That sounds love to. I'll let you know when I'm next back in the UK. My friend.

:: 46:12

Okay. Thank you very much, Philip. Appreciate and thanks for anybody who watches and listens. Appreciate it. Thank you very much.

:: 46:19

So much. I appreciate you. Until next time. Take care of yourselves. Thank you.

:: 46:24

Bye bye.

:: 46:28

Awesome.